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Post by Uesugi on Aug 12, 2007 2:39:03 GMT -5
No, without competition the writing (what little's still done, that is) will stagnate. Considering the amount of writing that actually goes on, there wont even be stress on the parts of the admins who have to set it up (and, honestly, how hard would that be? Make on topic, then copy it over a couple times with a few edits to the wording). Then you just set up a poll for all the stories that enter, and let the readers do the rest. You already know the rules, so you wont be coming up with anything on the spot. Have it start at the beginning of the month and end at the end of the month, and the writers will have more time then they'll ever need. And all that with hardly any effort. 1. It will not always stagnate. Competitions do tempt people to improve, but no more than pure love of writing will for others. Those that do improve do so because they want to win. One could almost argue that is a bad reason for wanting to improve somethingt hat requires passion. 2. There is no stress on anyone's part, except those who write little because their schedules are full. If there are five competitions they want to enter, but don't have the time, can't submit any older work, and want to work on their current stories, then it isn't really fair to them. One competition, however specialized, better appeals to those who do lack time, which is perhaps the majority of the site. 3. a. You're assuming anyone would read. there are two readers who are known to read most everything the site throws out: Me and me. Everyone else mostly sticks to a few stories of friends or nothing at all, or they don't post comments, so we don't know if they read. You're therefore leaving the vote up to two members. b. An open poll allows for favoritism. I like you, you like me, we're friends, we vote for one another, even if neither of us deserves it. You get one member a lot of people like, and they'll probably win out not because of skill, but because of popularity.
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Mr. Bubbles
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Post by Mr. Bubbles on Aug 12, 2007 2:49:50 GMT -5
1. Yeah it will. That's all I got at the moment; give me a bit and I'll think of something more convincing
2. If that's true then they wont ener anyway. Besides, it's not like they have to enter eery contest at once, just the one that appeals to them. They get more of a choice at what they write, and that will help.
3A. You're assuming that they wont. It's not just anything, it's a contest. Hell, you could make it a rule that participants must read each others stories and coment on them; that may not get more votes right away, but it'll get them in the habit of commenting.
3B. That one will happen anyway. Admins are people too, and you'll be just as biased. Any judge could be, and inevitably will be if given time.
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Post by Uesugi on Aug 12, 2007 3:06:19 GMT -5
I'm too tired and busy to reply in full, right now, but I do want to address point one...
You're entirely missing my point. A contest won't make people want to write more, and though ti may make them want to improve, it'll be for the wrong reasons. Writing is something that requires passion. You can't write if you don't love what you're writing. Well, you can, but it really shows. Some are just very competitive by nature, and thus it won't be because they love writing a whole bunch that they want to improve. It'll be because, at the end of the road, there is glory. There is recognition. There is, almost, a sense of superiority. You cannot deny that some will want to improve only because they want to win, and that writing is on the back burner in their life. They won't care about what they write, just that it does good enough. And, in my opinion, only one person thinking like that is too many.
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Post by me on Aug 12, 2007 3:08:15 GMT -5
1. Yeah it will. That's all I got at the moment; give me a bit and I'll think of something more convincing 2. If that's true then they wont ener anyway. Besides, it's not like they have to enter eery contest at once, just the one that appeals to them. They get more of a choice at what they write, and that will help. 3A. You're assuming that they wont. It's not just anything, it's a contest. Hell, you could make it a rule that participants must read each others stories and coment on them; that may not get more votes right away, but it'll get them in the habit of commenting. 3B. That one will happen anyway. Admins are people too, and you'll be just as biased. Any judge could be, and inevitably will be if given time. 2) No, there is a much higher chance of them entering if we only run one at a time. If we run multiple contests and he wants to get into several then it would put to much of a strain on that writer. Plus, there has to be a time limit on the entries otherwise we wouldn't get started. If we held it up for one person to finish writing then that would be favoritism. 3a) First off how are we supposed to enforce such a rule, and how many people ddo you think would pay attention to it? We can't even garuentee that they read it if they left a comment. They could just leave a generic comment with a BS tip. We can't look over their shoulder and make syre that they read it 3B) Yes, but with three people discussing each and every story it would be a very rare occurence. We are not individuals, as judges we deliberate and discuss the pros and cons of each story. That eliminates favoritism.
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Mr. Bubbles
Beginner
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Post by Mr. Bubbles on Aug 12, 2007 3:23:32 GMT -5
Then I'll address a different point.
You've missed the point by a mile. No one is writing right now. That pretty much crushes your point right there, but I'll add on. Yes, to write well it has to come from the heart, but that doesn't matter if no one does it. The contest isn't so much to increase the amount of writing, but the quality of it. By engaging in contests people are forced to try, to attempt to be the best, and there is passion in that. Don't give me that crap about passion. Competition doesn't discourage passion, it feeds on it. And, if people start to try, they will get better, and will encourage others to do the same. You know as well as I do that none of your points matter if they are proved false, and the writers have done that by doing one simple thing: not writing. Oh, sure, they still write sometimes, but not nearly as much as they do lurk. And recognition? That does not come from having one or two people commenting on your story; there is a feel of accomplishment, yes, but not recognition. My way has people writing and commenting more, if only just a little. In the end, you aren't arguing your point so much as you are trying to kill mine with flowery writing. What's going on here isn't cutting it. The amount of writing is decreasing. The lat competition had one entry. You either need to start some mass recruiting of people who'll actually write, stop the current apathy the writers are in on this site, or change. Change or die my friend, change or die.
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Post by OGRenderence on Aug 12, 2007 7:32:00 GMT -5
*looks at my CYOA and a tear goes down my cheek*
Wait I've been saying sopmething like that for months.
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Post by Uesugi on Aug 12, 2007 14:25:45 GMT -5
Then I'll address a different point. And perhaps skip all the points Me made, right? Thank you. Thank you for point out that the updates blood and Me made were completely none existent. Thank you for not recognizing the work they put into things. And me? Well, I apologize for not being able to churn out those 10-15 page updates that everyone seems to love. Yep, I apologize for not being a writing machine. Yeah, everyone, we should apologize. I guess the words we put out mean absolutely nothing to Mr. hamn here, who hardly reads at all to know how much we write. I guess everything in those threads is spam. Once more, I'm so sorry. Am I too blind not to see how? Or am I just crazy in thinking that you offended anyone who wrote anything in the last week? Passion in winning perhaps, passion in having bragging rights. Passion doesn't necessarily define a good write, an amazing writer. Passion doesn't define a likable writer (to some). However, it does define limitations. If you aren't passionate about the story, you won't tell it well, no matter how many fancy words and description you throw in. As a mod here, I don't want to help declare someone a winner of a competition when you can feel through the story, through their tone and voice, that their love isn't there. That person to me is a fraud, and doesn't deserve to be called a writer. But I think this is departing for the main point... Then don't give me crap about passion for winning a competition because you want glory and wanting to win because you want to share your writing and stories is the same bloody thing. Not always, and not always the right kind of passion. What is with you bloody saying that no one does any bloody writing? What? I've written five bloody chapter that nobody has bloody read. I've written a bloody short story that went untouched for a week or more. Other people have written, too. Perhaps you're too blind to see it, but people have. So, please, stop bloody saying that nobody bloody writes, especially when some have written a lot more than you. I believe the recognition I was referring to was that of winning a competition. And, no, if you get good compliments and advice you indeed feel recognition. Feeling accomplishment comes from writing fifty-nine pages and knowing you still have a hundred or more to go. Your way forces people to comment (which kills the quality of comments and leaves sugar-coated BS), and having more competitions doesn't encourage people one iota. In June we had a competition to write flash fiction. Only one person entered. In May we had one to write a short story. One person entered. Now we have this competition. Now, I plan on entering, and I sure as hell hope I'm not the only one to. Hamn, the thing is is that it won't encourage anyone anymore than normal. Also, I'm going to tack this on here: having one competition a month, focusing on one area does more to encourage versatility as a writer. Plain and simple. Having five or four or however many... it lets people pick and choose. Those who truly want to be better will want to test themselves in all areas. Having one competition a month better allows for this. Or, perhaps not, and you really don't see the poitn I am arguing, the one point I argued last night because I was tired. I have other responses to the other issues, but right now, since you're focus is solely on me, I am going to be sure to pour my all into this until you address Me's 2, 3a and 3b, and which point I'll argue about those, too. Call me an evil person, but I find it funny that this is coming from someone who hasn't written much since August first, whose updates are probably a page or so, and who seems too much a coward to write a few haikus. Who cares if they are bad. people need to get over that mentality. Write. Write if you thing it'll be amazing, write if you think it is bad. And on apathy by writers: they have to change that themselves. The staff can't get into people's head and tell them what to think. You know, I once had this nifty (and selfish) idea: maybe if I read people's stories, they'd read mine, they'd write more, etc. Obviously, that didn't work for me because I'm anti-social. But, hell, I suggest you try it out. Sometimes, mate, change has to come from the lowest level. That lowest level are the members, which each and every one of us is. The staff can't tell you to write, or to read, but we can suggest you do. Hamn, if you think comments make people feel accomplished, then go give comments. Maybe, somewhere along the way, you'll be inspired to write. Maybe you'll inspire others. I tried, and it didn't work, but repeat after me: Uesugi is an anti-social git who people hate. But maybe someone as talkative as you can actually do something. I know it seems crazy, but maybe you can inspire people who have stories tucked away under covers and in the back of closets to bring those stories out, to write better. Crazy, I know.
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Post by me on Aug 12, 2007 14:56:18 GMT -5
I guess you tell us the pronunciation you used, and if we find that it is an actual pronunciation of the word we accept it. Recently Talked to Dagoth, and this is how we're doing it. Methinks Uesugi wins by the way.
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Post by Uesugi on Aug 12, 2007 15:49:03 GMT -5
If he doesn't decide to reply, I think I have...
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Post by me on Aug 12, 2007 15:54:14 GMT -5
Aye, that be true
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Post by BloodMoonWolf on Aug 12, 2007 16:53:45 GMT -5
I'm actually going to side with uesugi here. I mean just look at my story "Romulus" I think its pretty obviouse that I hate that story. I mean its been a year, the story sucks and i have no intention of finishing it. If you don't like what you are doing and don't have to do it you're not going to do it. Its as simple as that.
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Post by Uesugi on Aug 12, 2007 18:32:52 GMT -5
As I promised the night before, my answers to these... 2. If that's true then they wont ener anyway. Besides, it's not like they have to enter eery contest at once, just the one that appeals to them. They get more of a choice at what they write, and that will help. Life doesn't hand one a lot of choices. Sometimes we have to barrel down one path because all others are closed off. You see, they can enter any contest they want... like now. Some people shall choose not to enter because they don't like haikus. That's fine for them. but for those who want a challenge, if offers them that chance. It also allows for the judges to spend more time pouring over the quality of an entry. With four or five or how many ever competitions going on, we then have to divide our attention. And I'll address polls in a bit. 1. A contest shouldn't be any more important than any other story on the site.... especially when the only real prize is a pat on the back. 2. Participants? As in... Entrants? Voters? The site? We gave up on trying to force people to read and comment and write and all that a long time ago. It cuts into ones freedoms as a member of the site. People can comment when they want, and how they want. Now, of course a contest can change that point, I concede you that. But they can leave some BS comment like "good job" and let that be that. You want us to put more emphasis on what constitutes a good comment? I can hear the cries of unfair already. Add to that that we can't prohibit someone from voting on a poll. yeah, we can make mistakes, and we have. However, there are three of us. We check each other. The negative feelings I hold for many are addressed, the... positive feelings others hold are addressed. We look at each other and we know how each one feels, and we are better able to figure if someone is showing bias. That is what we, as staff, are expected to do. We are expected to be fair in all outlets, and we generally are. If we're not, we have two others who can call us on it, as well as a memberbase. Any sort of favoritism would have to be shown by the group.
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Post by BloodMoonWolf on Aug 12, 2007 19:40:51 GMT -5
I have a question actually. What will you do if your vote is spilt between entries. I mean since you have to submit five entries instead of the usual one its going to be harder.
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Post by Uesugi on Aug 12, 2007 19:59:37 GMT -5
I think that, in that case, it may turn to the site... but I'm not judging on this one, so I can't say for sure. However, if they can decide on the majority of one being better, then it probably falls to that person.
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Post by OGRenderence on Aug 12, 2007 20:02:01 GMT -5
Blood gets the good question award! Everyone give him a round of applause! *Applause sounds* Now that's what everyone would like to know.
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